An excellent, insightful talk by Alain de Botton that covers some things that Atheism/Secularism can learn (and steal) from religion; useful things that religions do (no really, they do some actually useful things, strange as that may sound…) very well that secular society seems not to.
He makes several outstanding points and it’s given me quite a bit to think about. So I will. Think about it. And then, hopefully, remember what it was that I thought so I can write about it.
But seriously. Watch the video.
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Just watched the De Botton video……and yes pretty much what he said resonates with my own thoughts, and how maybe we can borrow from religion. However to keep with our own non-belief principles, wouldn’t this effectively mean setting up atheist churches…..which then is like playing them at their own game…….maybe that’s exactly what needs to happen, but this runs the danger of antagonising a situation??
He’s laid out a sort of framework, but no real details. E.g. his example of someone saying, “I prayed today”, but as an atheist just say nothing, be polite! It seems that it will always be the non-believers who really have to ‘bear the cross’ with this approach. I personally never feel good after seemingly challenging a religious action/viewpoint, this I know is because as a human I am programmed to seek acceptance in ‘group dynamics’!! I try to ask them if what I am saying is reasonable….to try to defuse the situation a little and get them not to clam up on me!!!
I do agree that communities need focal points, such as schools and churches………but rather than a church maybe a meeting place for all? However strange rituals, singing etc, only further divides people, so I don’t see a real workable solutions to bridging the gap with religious people?
I never class myself as an atheist, not because I am afraid or ashamed, but I simply don’t like labels and I think this contributes to the problem….this ‘who’s tribe/gang’ are you in……leading to the friend or foe mechanism’!!
I try to engage with a religious people, but it always seems to go nowhere…..maybe this is how it will be with a section of the public?
Thanks for sharing!
Our thinking seems to be pretty similar.
I posted it right after watching the video before I had really thought through everything De Botton had said.
Obviously my first reaction was positive – what he said sounded like it made a lot of sense. In hind sight though, having now thought about it properly, a lot of what he said doesn’t actually make sense.
I agree that the sentiment in the video is right: people need community and god (heh) knows Churches seem to get that bit right. Could Atheists learn from that? Well, that depends. Many other organisations also get the whole community thing right, not just churches and so why borrow anything from them when you have to wade through other nonsensical crap to get to anything that might be good or useful?
Learning by repetition? Also not the best way to learn in my opinion. Just because you can repeat something doesn’t mean you understand it. Religion, case in point. Just because a billion people dutifully repeat something doesn’t mean they have the faintest idea of the garbage they are sprouting.
I think De Botton has some interesting ideas and his heart seems to be in the right place but he needs work them through a little more. Just because it makes you feel good on the surface doesn’t necessarily translate to a good idea in practice.
Your line, “Just because it makes you feel good on the surface doesn’t necessarily translate to a good idea in practice”……spot on, this is exactly the after-feeling I am left with having watched De Botton.
All very well meaning, but how can we borrow and importantly integrate with religion.
History teaches us that conquering nations used to assimilate the religious practices of the new country into their own beliefs, a way of pacifying the populous…..how could we adopt this tactic in some way ……………..maybe we need to infiltrate the churches and slowly take them over just by sheer numbers. Lots of non-believers turning up to church, but not actually adhering to the rituals…..just sitting there…..and later over a cup of tea in the church tea room start to befriend them, but importantly not preach to them, just smile and after a few weeks I suspect a large proportion may admit they aren’t really religious but just like the sense of belonging/community???
Now I have re-read this paragraph it sounds like a terrible idea……..I could probably stick two Sundays…..then end up running screaming out of the church…….those bloody hymns…..what, no Metallica this week Reverend!!!
Are well…….will try to come up with a better plan!