Yesterday morning while I was having my morning shower I found myself wondering about the atheist and the skeptic movements. In particular, I was pondering why we tend to disagree so vehemently on so many subjects. In fact, there is very little we agree on. Fundamentally, atheism is a lack of belief in any god right? But us atheist don’t really even agree on that point. Some of us are quite convinced that there is no god, never was, never will be. Others insist that there probably is no god but you can’t really know. Others reckon you don’t have enough information to make up your mind either way. I think the closest we do come to agreeing on anything is the idea that it is much less likely that a god exists than the converse.
One of the things I find most trying about dealing with other atheists, especially in groups, is that you have to defend every single point you make since very few people ever agree with you completely. You very infrequently experience agreement purely for the sake of a feeling of community. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it forces you to avoid making statements for the sake of making statements and to seriously consider what it is you want to relay; your logic, thought process and conclusions will be questioned and best you be prepared to back everything up with some convincing evidence. This can sometimes makes informal conversation… exhausting.
“How much easier the religious have it”, I briefly thought with a pang of self-pity, “the Christians especially get to go to church and everybody just gets along and agrees…”.
Then I laughed. Hard.
I’m going to pick on Christians now because they’re in the news again. You see, at the core, Christians have something fundamental in common. They all read the same manual, the unchanging perfect words of the almighty creator of the universe; the super being who can do no wrong. You’d think, then, that they all agree and get along.
Christians do not agree and they do not get along and I find this hilarious to say the least.
There is a church in Auckland city that puts up some pretty risqué billboards; you can check out their site here: http://stmatthews.org.nz/. Now, I can appreciate this, at least they’re trying to get their Christians to think about what they’re doing a bit. The latest billboard was of the virgin Mary with a positive pregnancy test.
You might not think there’s much to that. Christians do, after all, believe a virgin, Mary, was impregnated by the almighty creator of the universe and bore its son whom they called Jesus Christ. Mary, virgin, pregnant. If you’re a Christian, that’s what you believe and that’s what the poster shows: Mary, surprised, pregnant.
Apparently not. One Mr. Arthur Skinner from the Catholic Action Group took great exception to this poster. “Blasphemy!” cried Mr. Arthur Skinner. He was, in fact, so pissed off with this blasphemous affront to his personal version of Christianity that he took to the poster and cut the positive pregnancy test right off. Clearly, the poster is now much less blasphemous since the removal of the proof of pregnancy… or something.
The "blasphemous" billboard - Before
The "blasphemous" billboard - After
From the New Zealand Herald article at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10773887
Catholic Action’s Arthur Skinner, from Whangarei, said they were protesting because the image was blasphemous.
Strange, it was put up by Christians who obviously didn’t find it blasphemous… I guess Mr. Arthur Skinner must have a different line to the almighty that says something else. Which, too, is a little strange, no?
Yesterday, stunned passers-by watched as a scissors-wielding zealot slashed the billboard and tore off a large chunk.
…
Skinner later claimed responsibility for the incident. He was believed to have earlier phoned St Matthew’s vicar Glynn Cardy to say he would “roast slowly in hell” for erecting the billboard.
“He told me I would burn in the fires of hell, that would be my final destination,” Cardy said.
Let us consider this situation for a moment. Both Skinner and Cardy claim to worship Jesus Christ. Both of them claim to have Jesus as their personal lord and saviour, to have a personal relationship with him. Seems to me somebody should just ask Jesus if he has a problem with the poster or not. Get an answer and have the deity in question settle the dispute. Seems pretty damn straightforward to me. Pray, get Jesus to tell each of them at the same time if the poster is ok or not. Simple right?
“It doesn’t work like that”, I hear them say. No? Then how the fuck does it work if you both speak to the same freaking god? If your god can’t even settle this one little dispute between devout followers amicably, what, precisely, can he do?
You see, here’s the problem with religion, Christianity in particular. They all (mostly – the Mormons had to go write their own addition to the unchanging words of the almighty) read from the same (by ‘same’ I really mean ‘similar’ since some of them took liberties in the many translations…) unchanging perfect word of the almighty creator of the universe. They all have a direct line to Jesus Christ who personally saved them and with whom they have a relationship with. And yet there are over 38,000 Christian denominations.
I shit you not. Thirty eight thousand different denominations. Thirty eight thousand different interpretations of what, exactly, it is, that Jesus Christ and his dad want from the world.
Some of the major Christian disagreements
Look, Christians, if you people can’t even agree on the basics, how the fuck do you expect to convince us unbelievers of The Truth (… as you currently see it anyway…). Tell me, which one of you has it right at the moment? Yea, of course…
Some of the major Protestant disagreements. Seriously. They even read the same holy book.
Disagreement and discord, those are very human characteristics. It is normal for human beings to disagree, to see every little thing differently. The way you view the world is shaped by unimaginably complex processes. Things like physical brain structure, brain, body and environmental chemical levels, hormone levels, altitude, electrical signals, external stimuli, culture, family, surroundings, the food you eat, the stuff you drink, the gasses you breathe, the things you’ve read, heard, watched, the parasites you carry, the diseases you’ve had, the diseases you currently have and all of this over the span of your entire life.
How could we NOT disagree? We are so fundamentally different, we have to disagree. If there was no disagreement what so ever, that would go a long way towards proving the alleged divine origins of religion since it would take a massive miracle and an almighty super being to get humanity to agree completely on any given point unquestioningly. That there is disagreement among the faithful says everything that needs to be said about that ‘faith’.
You Christians do not have a personal relationship with the same deity. You, fucking, do, not. It’s clear as daylight to anybody who looks. Grow up, accept that. There is no god. You’re making that shit up.
We do not agree on anything and we never will. The ability to compromise and work together despite our disagreements, that is what sets us apart. That is what makes us special.
“The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it.” — Voltaire
Finding it highly amusing that the billboard in question has been vandalised by one of ‘their own’ so to speak……..just beautiful!
I know what you mean about atheists attacking every point in a discussion…….it’s the price we pay for wanting free thought/reason. If that is the only downside to atheism, then it’s a price I am willing to keep paying.
It is also a salient point you make about the fracturing/history of Christianity, so many Christians don’t know their own history……….when I ask a Christian, ‘Which god they are on about?’…..they usually look baffled and respond, ‘The Christian one of course!’…they I say, ‘which Christian one’….and so goes the discussion until such point they walk away in frustration or the ‘penny drops’ with a loud ‘clunk’ and then they try to accuse me of being silly!! They don’t seem to understand that there are so many different types of Christianity and personal gods to choose or self-create…it’s just one big joke!!!!
I actually drove past the protest outside the church this afternoon. The delicious irony had my wife and I laughing hard. A protest by Christians in front of another type of Christian church over a billboard with contents that they fundamentally agree on. I love it.
You’re right on being prepared to pay the price: rather that than sheepishly following whatever you’re told.
I do wish Christians would spend just a little more time thinking about where they’re at and why they can’t seem to disagree. From where I’m sitting it makes tons of sense.
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate you taking the time to give your input!
This morning I should have said. They were still going just before 12.
Just brilliant….shame you didn’t have a camera on you to saviour the moment.
I’m a bit less apprehensive about the future of the rationalist community in noting that our opposition is just as fractious despite a facade of unity, and getting more so all the time.
Our only advantage is the worth we place on reason, rather than valuing it merely as the handmaiden of faith.
It’s unfortunate that they stand poised to impose a theocracy here in the ‘States, and get those more rational than themselves killed as easily as each other.
Awesome post.
The proof is, I suppose, in the pudding. Of all the people who should be united, those who claim to follow the same deity and it’s teachings of neighbourly love should embody it. Clearly they do not which should raise some questions with any serious thinking person.
I watch the travesty unfold there in the ‘States from my relatively comfortable and safe island with sadness and not insignificant trepidation. No good, I’m afraid, will come from a US president who looks forward to the apocalypse.
I do find the religious right’s distaste for public healthcare somewhat puzzling though since public health care sounds exactly like what their deity is alleged to have preached…
Thank you for your comment, I really appreciate it!
glad that you posted about the billboard!
i bet that it would have been burned very quickly here in the US, if anyone would have put it up at all.
http://www.tinyheathens.com/2011/12/so-thats-where-peeing-on-stick-comes.html
Great post.
Too often people use labels like “Christian” without noticing that there are literally thousands of different brands out there. Indeed, Christytrolls get very coy about mentioning their specific denomination when called out on it.
Schism.
Deal with it.
Repeatedly.
Evolution of Christianity – Defense Mechanisms
Thanks man!
I do sometimes wonder how it is possible for system of thinking to brainwash so many people that literally billions don’t ever test their belief. It’s such a simple thing to have two people speak to the single deity they both believe to have a ‘personal’ relationship with and see if they get the same answer.
Is it even possible that all two billion of them seriously believe that their answer is the correct one? Could there even BE that much hubris and arrogance?